Thursday, December 13, 2007

I'm Tired So This Is All You're Going To Get

I can't get full 100% confirmation on this, but a trusted source of FireJay was watching the Jazz/Suns game on ESPN earlier tonight. He claims that one of the announcers at one point celebrated a Steve Nash assist by claiming that Nash is "underrated." If this is true, that is dumbest thing that has been said about an athlete in years, or maybe ever. I don't think anyone who has covered the NBA during the past four or five years has underrated Steve Nash at any point. No one. None of them. Everything Nash touches turns to gold. He's completely un-criticizable. He's like basketball's answer for David Eckstein. (They're both white... they're both short... They're both constantly hyped by the media... I'm just saying.) Saying Nash is underrated is like saying Victor Zambrano is overrated.

On the other hand, if this tip is not true and that announcer actually said something else, I am basically printing lies in my blog. Is that illegal?

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ummm, you just compared Steve Nash, two-time MVP, top ten player in his sport, and one of the best point gaurds to play in the last 25 years, to David Eckstein. Please recant this ridiculous comparison.

pnoles said...

Well....except for the talent level disparity, the comparison holds water.

Jeff said...

I've griped about the Tim Duncan thing before - so I'll use this venue to do it again. I believe it was this past week (or last week) when one of the guys on Sports Reporters went on a rant about how under-rated Tim Duncan is. Bill Simmons has said this repeatedly. Scoop Jackson and Jemele Hill have hinted as such. If I read/see another national media outlet telling me that Tim Duncan is under-rated, I am going to destroy life on earth. That may seem harsh, but this REALLY bugs me, so it's not.

Jim said...

It was said last night, I was watching, but I think he was kind of kidding, he was excited, trying to make a point.

Andrew said...

Did someone just say Steve Nash was one of the top 10 players in the NBA, or has the acid really taken control of my senses?

No wonder why you post under the name anonymous.

eriz said...

[b]Did someone just say Steve Nash was one of the top 10 players in the NBA, or has the acid really taken control of my senses?

No wonder why you post under the name anonymous.[/b]

I think that Nash may be a little overrated, but various metrics rank him as one of the Top 10-20 players in the League.

Adjusted +/- by 82games.com had Nash as the 15th best player in 2006-07.

Hollinger's PER has Nash at #11 this season.

It's not really that much of a stretch to argue that he's a top 10 guy. He's one of the best passers ever, and a good shooter. Sure he can't rebound or play defense to save his life, but there's no arguing he's been a critical piece in Dallas' and Phoenix's respective offenses for the past several years.

Andrew said...

Hollinger's stats are all fine and good - but I don't think a player with absolutely no defensive value other than flopping with the hope of drawing a charge is a top 10 player.

Spencer said...

Off topic but these are the most misleading highlights. Ever
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3151172&categoryId=2459788&n8pe6c=3

They show the team that won making exactly one basket. I didn't know ESPN were such big Utah Jazz fans.

larry b said...

Thanks for checking in for me, PNoles. Yes, anonymous, obviously I didn't mean that Eckstein and Nash were comparable in terms of talent. Just in terms of media hype. Obviously Eckstein is very overrated while Nash is probably correctly "rated," but they both get a ton of press. They also both enjoy the musical stlyings of John Legend. Coincidence?

pnoles said...

More like "musical out-of-stylings". Am I right guys?

eriz said...

Hollinger's stats are all fine and good - but I don't think a player with absolutely no defensive value other than flopping with the hope of drawing a charge is a top 10 player.

That's exactly like me saying that someone like ryan braun or miguel cabrera aren't very good because they are bad at playing defense. All three players are valuable because their offensive production more than makes up for their defensive lagging. That shows up in the adjusted plus/minus i was talking about that had nash as 15h most valuable per minute played. That stat is a variation of the good old plus minus stat. It simply removes most of the bias of which other players you play with.

Nash, as ridiculous and predictable as it sounds, operates that offense very effectively and his presence make their O score more than their D gives up. He's an elite NBA player, no matter the hype.

pnoles said...

I'm going to make an irrelevant rant about the Ryan Braun issue a little bit, just because I was obsessed with following him this season and I like hearing myself type even if it's off-topic. Miguel Cabrera is sort of bad at defense. Ryan Braun is really, REALLY bad at defense. Here's some stats.

451 ABs at a .319 EqA. That's really fucking good. But.....his WARP1 was only 3.9. Speaks wonders about his defense. (-25 FRAA!)

The rightful NL Rookie of the Year, Troy Tulowitzki, had an 8.5 WARP1. Granted, Troy had more games to accumulate that WARP, but still.....

I guess what I'm saying is, the sooner Braun is plunked into left field, the better.

eriz said...

Yeah, Pnoles, maybe it was a bad comparison. I just wanted to point out two guys who are good at offense and bad at defense but still have a positive value.

Brauns' season was ridiculously good at the plate. But he earned only a 3.9 WARP in 113 games. Even if he had played in all 162 games, his WARP couldn't have been higher than 5.9, which STILL would have put him behind Tulo. FRAA seems to be flawed at times, but regardless of the metric, Tulo was outstanding at D and Braun was ATROCIOUS.

The funny thing to me is that Tulo was robbed of the RoY because of HURR DINGERS, But Rollins beat out Holliday for MVP with a 118 OPS+ because he's got a "sweet glove"

Now Tulo deserved the RoY and neither Rollins or Holliday really deserved MVP. But it is funny what baseball writers see as convetional wisdom, and how often they are flat out wrong.

I guess what I'm saying is that Nash is really pretty good, if a bit overrated, but that he is a very valuable asset to his team because his contributions on offense more than make up for his shortcomings on defense

pnoles said...

No, it wasn't a bad comparison. Braun and Cabrera are two valuable players despite being bad at defense, like you said.

I just wanted to point out that shit about Braun because I'm a nerd that finds it interesting.

larry b said...

Easy with the nerdiness, nerds.

Also, basketball defense and baseball defense are hardly comparable. While baseball defensive mistakes tend to hurt a lot more than basketball defensive mistakes, you have to "play" defense 75-100 times per basketball game compared to maybe 10 times a game (probably less) as a baseball 3rd baseman.