Saturday, September 18, 2010

Same Old Joe

Hello again Mr. Morgan. It sure is nice that you haven't given in to all the newfangled "sensible" ways of thinking about baseball. And it's especially nice that you remind everyone every week on Sunday Night Baseball. But.....

please, please, stop embarrassing yourself

Jeremy L (Philly): Hey Joe, I've been a big fan for a while. Could you please weigh in on the CC vs. King Felix for cy young debate?

Jeremy L (Philly) just asked a very innocent question and somehow just made Joe Morgan incredibly pissed off.

Joe Morgan: I think it's a joke to have that kind of debate.

I agree of them has been significantly better than the other.

What Sabathia has done is be the best pitcher in the AL from opening day to this point.


I don't buy into the point that if Felix is pitching for someone else he'd have more wins.

Huh. You don't buy that. Interesting.

New York Yankees Runs Scored: 778, best in Major League Baseball
Seattle Mariners Runs Scored: 469, worst in Major League Baseball

Let me repeat. The Seattle Mariners have scored 469 runs. That's 37 less than the Pittsburgh Pirates. The Oakland Athletics, who batted fucking Kurt Suzuki and his .242/.305/.366 line 3rd all season until they realized that this didn't cut it, so they promoted Mark Ellis to the 3rd spot in the order, have outscored the Seattle Mariners by a whopping 121 runs.

And Felix Hernandez wouldn't win more games somewhere else? Somewhere where he wouldn't take the loss 7 times for giving up 3 ER or fewer? Somewhere where he wouldn't get a no-decision 10 times for giving up 3 ER or fewer? Because those places exist Joe. They're called anywhere but motherfucking Seattle.

They said that about Cliff Lee when he left Seattle, but he's lost more than he's won since he left Seattle.

Because he's pitching worse.

The name of the game is to win and he's won.

Yes, he has, with the help of mediocre offensive talents like Robinson Cano, Alex Rodriguez, and Mark Teixeira. Sabathia just puts 'em all on his hefty back and drags them kicking and screaming to the 'W'.

And if you're looking at a second guy, it has to be David Price.

Who has thrown 80% of the innings of either of them.

And now, ladies and gentleman, here is my favorite line of any JoeChat ever.

It's amazing to me that we have let computers define him rather than performance.

A) No one even knows who you're talking about anymore. This is like your eleventeenth ambiguous "he"/"him" reference in this response, and we've got a ways to go.
B) It's amazing to me that you're letting CC's offense define him rather than his pitching. Same with Felix.
C) What the fuck?

His job is to win the game, not just pitch 5-6 innings.

Twelveteenth. Also, this doesn't make any sense at all. Felix Hernandez has thrown
more innings than CC Sabathia, if you were trying to claim that Felix isn't winning or something because he doesn't pitch deep into games. This is worthless.

I don't think there should be a debate between Felix and Sabathia.

And we're back to being in agreement.

This might have been the end of Joe's response. It was the end of the comment box containing his reply. However, this one ticked Joe off so much that he had to post a second comment in the chat containing the following:

There are a lot of examples where a pitcher pitches great on a bad team and then he gets traded to another team and he loses. A month and a half ago, they were saying the Cliff Lee was going to win the Cy Young Award and no one else was close. He gets traded to Texas and he hasn't won games and Texas is a better team than Seattle.

"There are a lot of examples where X. To prove just how many there are, I'm going to give you the same example I just gave you one paragraph ago."

This actually reminded me of the ginger episode of South Park where Cartman kept trying to think of red-headed celebrities and only could come up with Ron Howard.

Mark (Minnesota): How do you like theTwins chances of making it to the World Series if they continue to play good baseball like they have been playing. Also with the return of Justin Morneau to the lineup hopefully in the near future will only make them stronger in the hitting category.

Mark, you are about to get the least informative answer in hist---no...that's an exaggeration. This is, in fact, a JoeChat.

Joe Morgan: There is something about the Twins that leaves me wondering.

Interesting...what is it?

I don't know what it is.

Of course you don't.

They seem to do everything they're supposed to do. They pitch well, hit well, play defense.

Sounds like a great team to me! So what's wrong?

But there is something about them that keeps me wondering about if they can go all the way. mentioned that they are effective at the three things that comprise pretty much 100% of Major League Baseball (if you count "play defense" as a compliment), so I really don't see what you could be talking about....

There's just something there that I have questions about.

And neither do're just making words and avoiding saying anything specific about the Twins, because you don't know anything about the Twins.

I don't think they can beat the Yankees in a short series, especially if the Yankees have the home field.

Wow, there you go Mark. Joe doesn't think that a team that hits well, pitches well, and "plays defense" can beat the New York Yankees in a short series. (I like how he uses "short series" almost as if its evidence to his point, because it's far easier for a bad team to beat a good team in a short series as opposed to a long one).

Tito (Brooklyn) What do you think about the conflict between Rasmus and LaRussa? Who has been in the wrong?

Joe Morgan: Well, I'm not close enough to the scene to make that kind of determination.

Joe, if you're not close to the scene, I must be in another fucking solar system. But this is an easy question to answer. Tony LaRussa is a fuckhat. A serious fuckhat. If you are a manager and have one of the best young players in major league baseball hitting .276/.361/.512 and you bench him for any reason besides injury, you should be fired. Immediately.

I had a long talk with Tony before our Sunday night game. I've known him a long time. He wasn't holding any grudges against Rasmus. Tony felt like it was his job to help a young player gain experience and understanding of what was expected from him. After a couple of meetings, they both got on the same page, but what happened was it was reported later that he had asked for a trade and Tony said he didn't ask for a trade.

I don't have a problem with any of this. I just don't understand how Joe can have all of these discussions with Mr. LaRussa and make the standard disclaimer that he's "not close to the scene".

Steve (Blacksburg, VA): What's your theory on the Rangers? Think they can hang in the playoffs?

Steve, that was a mistake. You are foolish to think that Joe has any theories on the Rangers.

Joe Morgan: If they have homefield advantage, I think it will really help them.

As opposed to the Tampa Bay Rays, for whom home field advantage would have about the same effect as James Shields and Evan Longoria contracting Rocky Mountain spotted fever.

I don't see them with their starting pitching being able to be the dominant team that they've been in the West.

Your up-to-the-minute ERAs of the best four hitters-park-pitching-in starters of the Texas Rangers:


Joe seems to have these Rangers confused with those from 2004. Now, back to the chat!

But as I've always said and I continue to believe, any team that gets into the playoffs can win the championship. If you get hot in that short period of time, you have a chance of winning.

That was a very Ranger-y, Ranger-specific thing to Ranger. Rangers!

The playoffs is a very short season.

That sentence just makes me smile. I don't see any better way to go out. Until next time!


Tonus said...

"any team that gets into the playoffs can win the championship."

Except for the twins, apparently.

His reply on the LaRussa/Rasmus issue is classic Joe Morgan. "I'm not close enough to the situation to know what's going on, I only got to speak to the manager face-to-face." Err... what?!?!

Chris W said...

I can see being indignant about how pitchers' jobs are to get wins (misguided though it be) but to accuse a pitcher with like 240 innings who leads the league in CG's and SHO's of not pitching deep enough into games is inexcusable

Jeff said...

RE: Sabathia vs. Felix.


It's like he's just fucking with us at this point. Like it's someone being a caricture of Joe Morgan.

pnoles said...

I'm still on the fence as to whether that person asked the question seriously, or just wanted to see Joe predictably shower Sabathia with praise for having a gigantic wins edge over Felix.

Jack M said...

Re: Cliff Lee

Is that more of an example of anecdotal evidence or a cherry picked statistic?

Anonymous said...

I would love to hear what Joe has to say about Cole Hamels. I mean he does only have 1 more win than Kyle Kendrick, so he must suck. Run support is a myth!

Adam said...

At this point Joe is almost like one of those crazy Vietnam vets who thinks he is still fighting the VC and is going to win. THEY are coming to get him. THEY think computers should be used to play baseball games.

Tonus said...

Yeah, as far as this goes: "His job is to win the game, not just pitch 5-6 innings", Hernandez has pitched 7+ innings in 23 of 32 starts, versus 21 of 32 for Sabathia.

Seattle has scored 101 runs in Hernandez' 32, starts, or 3.16 per game. The Yankees have scored 184 runs in CC's 32 starts (5.75/game). And just to tweak Joe's nose: the number of times each pitcher's team scored 10+ runs for him this season:

CC: 7
Felix: 0