tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post2511208166141466896..comments2024-02-16T02:12:08.305-08:00Comments on Fire Jay Mariotti: Hometown Hero Hates ComputersLarry Bhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16141943214237719821noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-67572559910434792452009-11-02T13:02:09.723-08:002009-11-02T13:02:09.723-08:00And that, friends, is why you do not post when dru...And that, friends, is why you do not post when drunk.Cornelius Talmidgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-82504830197113342402009-10-31T23:32:21.570-07:002009-10-31T23:32:21.570-07:00Sorry, misread the Oregon ranking. It was #3 in Sa...Sorry, misread the Oregon ranking. It was #3 in Sagarain, not "computer," prior to the USC game. Just most nonsense from Sagarin.Cornelius Talmidgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-75249010661403591212009-10-31T23:27:56.097-07:002009-10-31T23:27:56.097-07:00Angelo, where are you getting your "average c...Angelo, where are you getting your "average computer rankings"? Sorry, but you're either making them up (Arizone #14?? what??) or they are deeply flawed (Oregon #3 prior to USC game? you've got to be kidding...). No offense, but those are flat-out ludicrous rankings.Cornelius Talmidgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-25842344512729025762009-10-31T13:11:35.169-07:002009-10-31T13:11:35.169-07:00Just to be brief, here is the disjunct you are bli...Just to be brief, here is the disjunct you are blindly missing: These "S.O.S." indicators skew because of "cupcake" teams played intermittently between tough teams.<br /><br />I think almost every college football fan would say that a team who has beaten 6 teams that are 10-2 and 6 teams that are 2-10 has a much better case than a team that has beaten 12 teams that are 7-5. But you're taking the exact opposite stance.<br /><br />If that's how you want to view college football, that's fine. You're certainly not "inherently" wrong. But don't expect to find much common ground with college football fans.Chris Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152452626681072765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-60084993210037929872009-10-31T13:07:56.909-07:002009-10-31T13:07:56.909-07:00At a certain point you have to stop looking at Sag...At a certain point you have to stop looking at Sagarin as the be all and end all and look at these simple and basic facts of who Arizona has beaten (basically nobody but Oregon State) and who they have lost to (Washington and the team that almost lost to IU today) and who LSU has beaten (that same Washington team, as well as Auburn and Georgia) and who they lost to (The #1 team in the country--by 10 points--and no one fucking else)<br /><br />It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that Arizona is on the same level as LSU. In fact basically none of your classifications in re: pac-10 and sec "tiering" make any fucking sense and if Sagarin is how you arrived at those conclusions, it's probably time to start examining new ways to compare teams because the method has failed you miserably in this instance.Chris Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152452626681072765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-3671314487055508592009-10-31T12:13:56.876-07:002009-10-31T12:13:56.876-07:00Arizona is 14 in Sagarin and in average computer r...Arizona is 14 in Sagarin and in average computer ranking. Oregon is 3 in Sagarin and 6 in average computer rankings. They've both had some of the toughest schedules in the country so far. I used Sagarin for the breakdown of the groups because it's the one I know, but an average of all the computer polls would be better. Feel free to take the time and do it. I chose<br />great = top 10<br />good = top 20<br />decent = top 40<br />not good = top 100<br />shitty = > 100<br /><br />And notice, I was trying to be fair. If I would have chosen top 25 for good instead of top 20 for good, I would have gotten Stanford and Oregon St in good, and no extra SEC teams would move up. I knew I would hear about that from the pro-SEC contingent, so I chose top 20 to avoid that argument. But you're still pissed at seeing ratings that disagree with your preconceived notions of football superiority. Have you seen an Arizona game this year Chris? Without everyone playing each other, I'd rather go by computer polls that attempt to use statistics and unbiased analysis to determine rankings than the human polls.<br /><br />And CT, I bet Jeff also wishes he had that unrealistic #27 for Ole Miss back, since the only team they've beaten this year with a winning record is 4-3 I-AA Southeastern Louisiana.<br /><br />So maybe they'll come back and beat Auburn and make me look stupid for saying that. But based on their performance so far, I would have them much lower than #27. And if they start beating good teams, I (and the computer rankings) will respect them for it. But I'm glad they are still #22 in USA today for being in the SEC and for having a preseason top-10 ranking.Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565602337634280524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-32224330676959812642009-10-30T18:20:43.026-07:002009-10-30T18:20:43.026-07:00wow, just wow, at Angelos' "great/good/av...wow, just wow, at Angelos' "great/good/average/awful" rundown of the SEC and Pac-10.<br /><br />I like how Arizona is in the same tier as fucking LSU. Wonderful.Chris Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152452626681072765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-84811944723532649402009-10-30T14:57:40.470-07:002009-10-30T14:57:40.470-07:00Andy, if you played teams the year you schedule th...Andy, if you played teams the year you schedule them, then yes. They make the schedules a few years in advance for OOC games though, so if a team schedules a Nebraska or a Miami (Fla.)or a Florida, you don't necessarily know that it's going to be Ron Zook Florida or Urban Meyer Florida. By scheduling teams that have been good for a long time, or are big name schools, you can cut down the odds of having a 3-10 stinker OOC team on your schedule. That's all I was saying about USC getting credit.<br /><br />Notre Dame might suck this year, but we pretty much know that Louisiana Monroe is going to stink every year.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00086638597582394978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-18631975737886671752009-10-30T13:08:19.202-07:002009-10-30T13:08:19.202-07:00Dan-Bob, I'm a working man, so I'll have t...Dan-Bob, I'm a working man, so I'll have to appeal to the common sense of your readers on this one. But anyway, what numbers did Angelo provide proving that the Pac 10 has better football teams than the SEC? Non-conference strength of schedule and Jeff Sagarin's ratings? Oh. Nevermind then. The Pac 10 is better. Oh, and also Va. Tech is better than Texas. Jeff probably wishes he had that one back.Cornelius Talmidgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-12589636893009905462009-10-30T11:33:44.220-07:002009-10-30T11:33:44.220-07:00By what qualification do you determine that Oregon...By what qualification do you determine that Oregon is great and LSU merely good?dan-bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02465285716333091226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-6862331658476858542009-10-30T06:04:24.461-07:002009-10-30T06:04:24.461-07:00Cornelius, I am clearly willing to take the bait. ...Cornelius, I am clearly willing to take the bait. I would argue that the Pac-10 is definitely superior to the SEC, although it may be related to the fact that I prefer to watch Pac-10 games than SEC games. Plus, I respect the conference for scheduling better games and proving themselves (even if they take losses) rather than riding preseason rankings to bowl games. As Martin said, it's a circular argument with the SEC. <br /><br />I like that you said "clearly superior to the Big 10 and Big 12" instead of including the ACC and Big East. Sagarin has 1. Pac-10 2. SEC 3. ACC 4. Big East 5. Big Ten 6. Big 12<br /><br />As I mentioned, 1. and 2. are close and then 3-6 are all close together. If you ask general public or whoever votes in the AP poll, I think you get 1. SEC 2. Big 12 3. Pac-10 4. Big Ten 5. ACC 6. Big East<br />Why is that?<br /><br />Pac-10:<br />2 great teams (USC, Oregon)<br />2 good teams (Cal, Arizona)<br />3 decent teams (Oregon St.,Stanford,Washington)<br />2 not good teams (UCLA, Arizona St)<br />1 shit team (Wash St.)<br /><br />SEC:<br />2 great teams (Florida, Alabama)<br />1 good team (LSU)<br />6 decent teams (Ole Miss, South Carolina, Georgia, Auburn, Arkansas,Kentucky)<br />2 not good teams (Tennessee, Miss. St)<br />1 shit team (Vanderbilt)<br /><br />SEC has more teams, so they have more decent teams. But the distribution is similar.<br /><br />Conference Head-to-head:<br />LSU won at Washington (good over decent), Arizona St lost at Georgia (decent over not good), UCLA won at Tennessee (not good over not good). <br />And LSU probably only scheduled at Washington because they were bottom-feeders in the Pac-10 when it was scheduled.<br /><br />The other thing I didn't mention in the out-of-conference schedule comparisons:<br />SEC percentage of road games - 19%<br />Pac-10 percentage of road games - 37%<br /><br />Don't believe the hype.Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565602337634280524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-66156218913265083022009-10-29T19:33:42.907-07:002009-10-29T19:33:42.907-07:00Martin, a beef:
"Southern Cal usually schedu...Martin, a beef:<br /><br />"Southern Cal usually schedules two good games out of conference each year, Notre Dame and someone else."<br /><br />You don't get points for effort. You get points for playing good teams. USC Deserves no credit at all for playing Notre Dame for the last few years (this year excluded), because they were awful. The fact that they used to be good means jack shit. When you schedule teams, you have to play them that year, and any other year is irrelevant.<br /><br />Other than that...spot on.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04916998165596698465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-37290168077222901782009-10-29T16:26:00.826-07:002009-10-29T16:26:00.826-07:00CT, Angelo did provide the numbers. Your take on ...CT, Angelo did provide the numbers. Your take on the situation looks a bit short on support...dan-bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02465285716333091226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-64290041445402572282009-10-29T16:20:22.751-07:002009-10-29T16:20:22.751-07:00Angelo, I don't want to open up a giant can of...Angelo, I don't want to open up a giant can of worms here, because you're obviously willing to take the bate, but you aren't seriously suggesting that the Pac 10 (said with spitting disgust) is comparable to the SEC, such that those two conferences are coupled together atop the elite of college football, clearly superior to the Big 10 and Big 12? <br /><br />Maybe I'm confused, but when did the Pac 10 stop having one great team (USC), two decent teams (Oregon and Cal), and seven teams stuck somewhere between average and utter shit?Cornelius Talmidgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-76817117752145914152009-10-29T07:33:14.690-07:002009-10-29T07:33:14.690-07:00to correct a mistake above:
For the pac-10, I incl...to correct a mistake above:<br />For the pac-10, I included the I-AA in the non-BCS, but I (actually Matt Hayes from http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2009-06-15/ranking-nonconference-schedules-sec ) didn't do so for the SEC. So really, to be consistent, it should read<br />I-AA: Pac-10 4, SEC 11<br />non-BCS: Pac-10 15, SEC 34Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565602337634280524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-79904154421848122932009-10-29T06:57:44.101-07:002009-10-29T06:57:44.101-07:00An argument can be made that the Pac-10 is the bes...An argument can be made that the Pac-10 is the best conference, but it's not as if the SEC only wins because it feasts on patsies. Anyway, here's a pro-Pac-10 argument:<br />http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204488304574429300357094012.htmlBiggus Rickusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-27689195521874812892009-10-29T00:55:19.131-07:002009-10-29T00:55:19.131-07:00Holy hell, the Irish should forget about joining t...Holy hell, the Irish should forget about joining the Big 11 or the Big East, looking at the schedule they ought to join the Pac-10. They have 4 games against them. <br /><br />I have long thought the SEC was the best conference in the country, but as Angelo points out, they play pretty much nobody outside the conference. They use the excuse that's because the conference play is so tough. it becomes a circular argument though, which ends up being based on the pre-concieved notion that the conference is superior to begin with, based on no evidence, just blind faith. <br /><br />I actually blame this chicken and egg argument of the SEC for the weakening of schedules. Teams feel they have to go undefeated because of the pre-concieved idea that the SEC is always the superior conference. This gives us weaker schedules with much fewer out of conference marquee match ups. It also is a reason I think ESPN slobers all over USC. <br /><br />Southern Cal usually schedules two good games out of conference each year, Notre Dame and someone else. Now sometimes the team might not be very good that year, but come from a big time/name school, and shows that at least the Trojans made an effort. It gets ABC/ESPN better game choices and ratings. Over the last few years they've had Nebraska, Arkansas, Auburn and Ohio State in home and homes, and Fresno State at home. Bitch about the stroke job they continually get, but at least realize that very few teams can put up a similar OOC schedule like that the last 8 years.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00086638597582394978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-6720636897547413322009-10-28T15:45:47.978-07:002009-10-28T15:45:47.978-07:001. It's about the money, from three sources:
...1. It's about the money, from three sources: <br />a) Home stadium revenues (direct).<br />b) Share of conference bowl money for getting one extra conference team in a bowl game (conference cooperation);<br />c) Share of conference's MAJOR bowl money for having a second conference team in one (conference cooperation).<br />(a) is huge for the team. (c) is huge as well. no doubt that Fla and Ala will make major bowl games if they are undefeated heading into their SEC Championship matchup.<br /><br />2. I am a Husky fan, and I and disturbed by its schedule change. <br /><br />3. Cincy's goal should be to make the major bowl game by winning the conference. Past Big East mid-season whiners with cupcake schedules got their comeuppance with late season upsets. That's what happens when you don't test yourself and find weak areas to improve on (or eliminate).<br /><br />4. Rankings are very stubborn to change. Pre-season rankings (based on reputation, prior year, returning starters' quanitiy and quality, etc.), get too much subconscious credit during the season, all the way to the final BCS ranking.<br /><br />5. Yo, Jarret, two words: Ti. Vo. If it's that important to watch. Get up early and watch before reading the paper or watching sports news.<br /><br />6. Lastly, it is obvious that letting people with a biased interest in the Last Game and Major Bowl teams choose the teams is a bad idea. The SEC interest base has figured out the system.Sean Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-84806639349827915412009-10-28T12:53:13.326-07:002009-10-28T12:53:13.326-07:00Damn, Angelo. That's a whole bunch of facts t...Damn, Angelo. That's a whole bunch of facts that you've got there. But here's something you've ignored - who has the time for Pac 10 football? It's in the Pacific time zone - do you know how hard it can be to stay up on a Saturday to watch some of those games?Jarretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11590314117863824022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-43381698520647692752009-10-28T11:07:07.559-07:002009-10-28T11:07:07.559-07:00Fresno State: #30 Sagarin
Oregon State: #24 Saga...Fresno State: #30 Sagarin<br />Oregon State: #24 Sagarin<br /><br />Fresno State is one of the most respectable teams in the country. Their motto is "we will play anyone anywhere anytime."<br />They lost in OT at Wisconsin, lost by 17 to Boise St, and yes lost by 8 to Cincy. That's a quality win for Cincy, even if you don't respect the name. Also, Oregon St is a quality win, especially away. They've lost to USC, Arizona, and Cincy, all very good teams.<br /><br />I don't deny that Florida's schedule has been tougher than Cincy's, but it hasn't been that hard. Read my above posts and notice that I wasn't arguing Cincy should be first right now. The point is, end of season, if Cincy, Texas, Boise St, and TCU are all undefeated, I think Cincy has the best resume. Iowa and whoever is undefeated between Florida and Alabama will probably have a stronger case, so I didn't say Cincy should be #1. But I guarantee you, if Cincy wins out, regardless of the rest of the records, they will not play in the championship game. The Big East is not respected by the media or the general public, who would rather see a 1-loss Florida play a 1-loss USC. That's just how it is.<br /><br />It's all moot anyway because Cincy will lose before the season ends.<br /><br />Besides ND (who I respect for having tougher schedules than most), you have most of the Pac 10. They play 9 in conference, so here are the remaining 3 out of conference games.<br /><br />Washington: LSU, Idaho, at Notre Dame<br />Arizona: Central Michigan, Northern Arizona, at Iowa<br />Oregon: at Boise State, Purdue, Utah<br />USC: San Jose St., at Ohio St, at ND<br />Washington St: Hawaii,SMU,at ND<br />UCLA: San Diego St.,at Tennessee, Kansas St.<br />Cal: Maryland,Eastern Wash, at Minnesota<br />Stanford: at Wake Forest, San Jose St, Notre Dame<br />Oregon St: Portland St, at UNLV, Cincinnati<br />Arizona St: Idaho St., Louisiana-Monroe, at Georgia<br /><br />Total I-AA: 4<br />Total non-BCS: 15<br /><br />For SEC<br /><br />1. Georgia: at Oklahoma State, Arizona State, Tennessee Tech, at Georgia Tech<br />2. South Carolina: at N.C. State, Florida Atlantic, South Carolina State, Clemson<br />3. LSU: at Washington, Louisiana-Lafayette, Tulane, Louisiana Tech<br />4. Alabama: vs. Virginia Tech, Florida International, North Texas, Chattanooga<br />5. Tennessee: Western Kentucky, UCLA, Ohio, Memphis<br />6. Vanderbilt: Western Carolina, at Rice, at Army, Georgia Tech<br />7. Mississippi State: Jackson State, Georgia Tech, Houston, at Middle Tennessee State<br />8. Auburn: Louisiana Tech, West Virginia, Ball State, Furman<br />9. Florida: Charleston Southern, Troy, Florida International, Florida State<br />10. Kentucky: at Miami (Ohio), Louisville, Louisiana-Monroe, Eastern Kentucky<br />11. Arkansas: Missouri State, vs. Texas A&M, Eastern Michigan, Troy<br />12. Mississippi: at Memphis, Southeastern Louisiana, UAB, Northern Arizona<br /><br />Total I-AA: 11<br />Total non-BCS: 23<br /><br />Gee, I wonder why so many SEC teams make it to bowl games.Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565602337634280524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-1023288865549813672009-10-28T08:22:23.165-07:002009-10-28T08:22:23.165-07:00To wit, here are the teams Cincy has beaten this y...To wit, here are the teams Cincy has beaten this year:<br /><br />--Rutgers<br />--SE Missouri State<br />--Oregon State<br />--Fresno State (by a touchdown in Cincinnati)<br />--Miami of Ohio<br />--South Florida<br />--Louisville<br /><br />Sorry dude. I'm not even gonna harp on SE Missouri State, but there's just no quality there.<br /><br />Yes, Florida schedules some cupcakes, and yes Iowa almost lost to Arkansas State and Northern Iowa and that's embarrassing, but those teams have actually gone out there and beaten some quality opponents. What does Cincy have? Fresno State and Oregon State? Really dude?Chris Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152452626681072765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-18026971588844935562009-10-28T08:19:52.001-07:002009-10-28T08:19:52.001-07:00Angelo--
I can list shit cupcake teams for every ...Angelo--<br /><br />I can list shit cupcake teams for every team in college football (besides ND of course!!!!) but the bottom line is this:<br /><br />We can go name for name for quality opponents Cincy has beaten vs. the quality opponents beaten by UF, Iowa, Bama, and Boise State and it's not going to end well for Cincy.<br /><br />SEC overrated or not, it doesn't get much simpler than that.Chris Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152452626681072765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-3546697068701847692009-10-28T08:05:01.137-07:002009-10-28T08:05:01.137-07:00I love the midseason BCS overreaction column. The ...I love the midseason BCS overreaction column. The fact is we've had one year where a third unbeaten team from a major conference was shut out of the championship game. The odds that Florida or Alabama, Texas, Cincinnati, TCU, Iowa and Boise will all win out are about eight billion to one, give or take. So maybe, like Kelly said, we should see how it shakes out before we start worrying about who's getting screwed out of what?Biggus Rickusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-17688155863036500342009-10-28T07:31:48.940-07:002009-10-28T07:31:48.940-07:00just to clarify my point of listing the strength o...just to clarify my point of listing the strength of conferences:<br />if Florida, Texas, Cincy, and TCU end the year as the only unbeatens, we can all agree that Florida will play Texas in the national championship. However, Texas and Cincy will have about equal strength of schedules in about equally strong conferences. So why should Texas get the nod over Cincy? Bloodlines/preseason rankings/big name university/colt mccoy? That's why I think Cincy has a right to be upset in general. You're right that not scheduling SE MO St. would give them a stronger argument, but Texas should have scheduled stronger too and no one complains about their cupcakes not hurting them if they win out.<br /><br />The biggest reason a playoff is necessary:<br />Washington just cancelled games against BYU to replace them with games against Eastern Washington. If you look at the teams that play the toughest schedules, none survive the year undefeated, even though some of them are the best teams overall (i.e. if you knew who the top 13 were, and had them play a schedule solely of the other 12, no one would go undefeated and the team with the best record would not be Florida, or Cincy, or TCU). Teams are hurt marginally by weak strength of schedule, but are helped tremendously by having a guaranteed win. CFB isn't about the best competition, it's about making money. Surprise, they don't want a playoff.Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565602337634280524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6300012139741038635.post-47568538714075170582009-10-28T07:17:17.525-07:002009-10-28T07:17:17.525-07:00I didn't realize the BE was rated so highly by...I didn't realize the BE was rated so highly by Sagarin. Thanks, Angelo.dan-bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02465285716333091226noreply@blogger.com